[AI] His Evil Twin's Good Twin's Evil Brother...

[beetlebutt]

Jaime's family had become surprisingly okay with him having an almost-was-a-future-evil-overlord in the house, but that was probably because they had one for a son, too. That was what the scarab had been made for, after all, and they were all about giving people chances. That was why Jaime himself was about giving people chances. That was how they'd raised him, seeing the good in people.

And they believed what Jaime said, they knew people like Luthor and Osborn were snakes, the types that could fool even some of the smartest, most well-meaning people. It was better, they decided, to welcome him. Jaime cared about him and that was enough.

So the political chithcat about how Luthor was evil and Osborn was a madman was kept to a minimum when he was over and they tried to their best to be welcoming. Genuinely welcoming. Even Paco and Brenda joined in, because maybe they wouldn't have trusted him on their own, but they trusted Jaime's trust.

So Nate had become a welcome a figure in Jaime's very crowded house. It really was an arrangement borne of necessity for them to even have a friendship. It wasn't like he could hang out at Avengers Tower and it wasn't like Nate was welcome at Defenders Tower.

Towers were lame hangout places anyway, right?

(Except for Titans Tower. Titans Tower was okay, it had a really nice foosball table.)

"He's the evil twin, I'm calling it," said Paco from where he sat on the couch with Brenda.

"But which one? There are like," Jaime counted on his fingers, "three evil twins so far." The scarab chirped in his head. "Oh, good point. Evil triplets, though. It might be evil triplets."

The scarab chirped again.

"...Okay, okay, I'll give you credit. Scarab wants me to let you know that he predicted it and not me. Why do you even care? You hate this show." He shook his head. "Except Javier mentioned being a fan of the JSA growing up so what if it's two sets of triplets from A-side and one from B-side? Or, like, one set of triplets from A-side, and two twins from B-side who maybe don't have another twin. So two of the triplets are evil, but only one or two of the twins or triplets are evil from the other side."

"My brain is melting. How are your brains not melting?" asked Brenda.

Telenovelas had gotten really weird after the Cataclysm. And that was why one of Jaime's favorite things to do with Nate (and sometimes Paco and Brenda who joined in) was trying to make sense of them. And laughing at them when they inevitably didn't make any sense at all.

"Nate," Bianca called from the kitchen, "did you want to stay for dinner?"

Comments

[beetlebutt]

"I figure that's the best of both worlds. Secret IDs and forcible recruitment to the Initiative was the sticking point in Civil War, not training itself. On our side, for instance, most newer heroes will take any training they can get. They try to get mentored by the older heroes or join a team like the Titans where the older more experienced Titans train and mentor them. That's what I did. Getting most people to train isn't actually that hard." He went on, "But any attempts at forcing registration are not going to work. And that's partly for good reason. There is no way to have a central secret ID database that doesn't get abused. There will always be a supervillain out there smart enough to hack it. And too many people in the superhero community have been burned with their secret IDs being compromised. They've Had family killed, injured, tortured, brainwashed, you name it. But that way the secret IDs stay safe, the training's right there, there's steeper consequences to not doing it if you mess up and get someone killed. And it's way better than doing nothing and waiting for the next Stamford to happen."

[inb4conquering]

The idea had merit, he had to admit, but the more he turned it over in his head, the more a nagging flaw started to gnaw at him.

"I don't think forced registration would work, but... the idea was introduced as a way to force accountability. As long as they have a secret identity, then no matter how badly they screw up, they can just take the mask off and slip back into their regular life unnoticed." Which was a pretty major flaw as far as he was concerned.

"What then? Are you assuming that a bunch of ridiculously powerful people are going to turn themselves in? Do we count on their other costumed associates to rat them out? Or does that part stay under the purview of HAMMER and the Avengers?" Since, really, was already part of their remit. "Not to mention that they'll have to unmask if they end up getting arrested and facing trial."

There really was a lot to consider there.

[beetlebutt]

"That depends on whether or not you see culpability as more important than prevention. What good is having someone's name to charge them when six hundred people are already dead? They're still already dead. You force registration, you get heroes not showing up because they won't give up their secret IDs, plain and simple. You get heroes not training and causing incidents. You get another civil war. If you get people willing to train you don't have to worry as much about prosecuting because the next Stamford doesn't even happen." He went on, "It wasn't a lack of culpability that caused Stamford. Speedball still went to jail and was held culpable. The system worked to prosecute him. It was carelessness. It was arrogance. My dad was in the army - he says that they beat that kind of arrogance out of you in boot camp. That's why most soldiers aren't going Rambo all the time and risking themselves and others. They get trained in threat assessment, cooperation, levels of force..." He ticked off each with his hand using his flashlight. He said, "And I think if heroes do mess up like that, yeah, other heroes should turn them in. They get considered a criminal, wanted for negligence. Someone messed up like the New Warriors I would bring someone like that in. I'd pity them, I'd feel like it was the villain that was truly evil in that situation, but someone is a dumbass and charges a supervillain with explosion powers near a school? You can bet I'd bring them in. Like with any wanted criminal. And yeah, they would have to get unmasked but at least they're getting unmasked after they potentially did something wrong. Not before. And if it's part of the legal process their families go into witness protection." Stark had been an exception and not even because Jaime felt he was innocent. The only reason he'd helped Stark hide was because of the secret IDs in his head. He didn't think he was a hopeless human being at heart but once he'd gotten them deleted that was when his help and protection had come to an end.

[inb4conquering]

"Yeah, but having been on both side of the situation, as an untrained Young Avenger, and fully registered Avenger, I still feel like your gives people far too many outs to escape justice." There was something about the whole secret identity thing that simply didn't sit well with him anymore.

"You have weapons with 'theological implications', if you were to use one and Stamford II were to happen, y-- okay, well, you'd probably turn yourself in, but if it were up to the other Defenders, how many of them do you think would hand you over to HAMMER?" Because, if Nate was being honest, he'd be conflicted as hell over having to take Jaime into custody. "And be honest about it, because damn near every member of your team thinks they have the right to tell any agent of HAMMER to piss off, just because they don't like the fact that Osborn's in charge." Or Lex Luthor, either, really.

"And even if we go smaller scale, not even Stamford level stuff, like--

"When I first formed the Young Avengers, one of our first missions was a hostage rescue. But we screwed up, got captured, and nearly got everyone killed. One of the hostages had to save us.

"In the end, everybody got rescued, thankfully; and the girl who saved us joined the team a day later. You can write it off by saying 'all's well that ends well,' but... as part of HAMMER, I don't have that luxury anymore. If you were there, you'd probably have given us a stern talking to, or something like that. But if something goes wrong now? I still have to answer to someone for my mistakes, even if things manage to work themselves out in the end."

He didn't ask the question, but it sort of hung in the air. Who do the Defenders answer to?

"I find it kind of comforting, personally," he added, shrugging a bit as if to say 'not sure why.' Though perhaps it was the fact that it forced him to constantly evaluate his behavior, and kept him on the straight and narrow.

"Training is good; I could've used it then, and I'm glad I have it now, but oversight and accountability out in the field is also something you can't overlook. Without it, people tend to get lazy and careless and sloppy, no matter how well trained they are. And even if they don't do the big thing like Stamford, they can still do a lot of little things that add up.

"...maybe assign them a HAMMER liaison to report to regularly, who reviews and evaluates their performance in the field?"

...it was a not unreasonable compromise, if nothing else.

cw: mention of suicide

[beetlebutt]

"There's ones that'd take me in. They'd be doing it with like shame beams set to maximum and hang dog looks but if I blew up 600 people? They'd do it. Superman would. He'd probably try talking me into surrendering first so I turned around from that kind of mistake and tried to do the right thing from then on afterward, but he'd drag me in if he had to." He nudged Nate's shoulder with his hand, not aggressively, but as a "you're forgetting something" nudge. "And it may feel good to have someone hold you accountable by knowing who you are, but no offense, you don't have family in this time period. You don't know what it looks like to see your mom in a total panic over your baby sister dying after she was blasted by a supervillain. Try imagining that good feeling weighed against the constant existential horror of knowing there's a little part of you that someone else can kill without ever laying a hand on you. And you wouldn't die. You'd have to live with a part of your soul gone. If you could live with it. If my family was gone, if something got them all at once..." He let that hang, his meaning clear. Not that it'd be easy. He'd probably have to get Ted's help removing the scarab, but then he'd take a swan dive off the nearest cliff. "If I had to give up that last little tiny bit of protection for them, I'd stop instead. I'd give it up. And, not to toot my own horn or anything but the world would be straight up fucked without me right now. There's a reason the Defenders are trying to get me all trained up so I need less handholding." There weren't enough heroes for someone as powerful as he was at a base level to give up the superhero thing right now. "But having a government liaison is a good idea. Long as it wasn't one of your psycho team-mates - and don't even argue with me there. I been in the field with you guys before and I know Ms Marvel is Moonstone. Can't prove it but she makes the Scarab do the gravity warning beeps and we know where the other Ms Marvel is. And even if she wasn't, she's nuts." He acknowledged, "But hey, if it was someone like, I don't know, you..."

[inb4conquering]

Admittedly, Nate didn't have much in the way of family in this time period. That said, he did have people he cared about in this time period, though none of them were as defenseless as Jaime's family. It was something to consider, though that train of thought got derailed slightly at the unspoken implication of Jaime's words.

Because if Jaime were ever to commit suicide, Nate would kill him for it. He's a time traveler, he can do that.

Its a thought he chews on for a moment, but spits it out of his mind in favor of moving on, letting out a scoff at the idea of Nate being a liaison for the Defenders.

"Yeah, I'm sure that would go over well. We're friends, but the rest of the Defenders think I'm as psycho as the rest of my teammates." Which, being honest, they may or may not be right about that, but that was beside the point. "And speaking of my teammates..."

Nate paused there, and put his hand on Jaime's shoulder to stop him as well. This was kind of important, and something that had been nagging at him for quite a while.

"Let's just say, 'hypothetically speaking' that Ms. Marvel used to be Moonstone." Nate was 99% certain that Jaime could hear the air quotes in his voice when he spoke, but even so, "So what? What does that even matter at this point?

"Two and half years ago, two worlds got smashed into one, and everything went to hell. Osborn could've gone back to being the Green Goblin, Ms. Marvel could've went back to being Moonstone and they could've caused all sorts of havoc if they wanted to. There was no one here to stop them. You Superman, Cap, the Justice League, the other former Avengers; all of you were drifting through the time stream like pieces of flotsam.

"But they didn't. Instead, faced with an impossibly huge mess, they jumped in and did everything they could to save lives and restore some sense of normalcy and order; find me a better definition of the word 'hero' than that. And they're still at it, they've been working their asses off as much as we have and its like--" He started gesturing wildly, because there was so much frustration that was bubbling over to the surface that he couldn't even words. Every attempt at speaking just came out as frustrated grunts and choked off sounds and even wilder gestures, before he finally let out a frustrated scream. "--Y'know?!"

...except Jaime probably didn't know. Because Nate hadn't explained anything. Not with words, anyhow. But with all of that out, he let out a long breath, and tried again. With words this time.

"Osborn's a former villain, I'm a future villain, the rest are-- who the hell knows; but in the here and now, we're all busting our asses to help this world move forward and instead of getting any kind of encouragement or support from the Defenders, it's like-- you're the only one who hasn't been a morally self-righteous dick at us. The rest of the show up and get offended that we don't bow down to their heroness and now we have to be heroes in spite of them rather than with them and there is so much more that could be accomplished if they weren't such judgmental pricks and think that they know better than us or the government or anyone else who isn't part of their little clique and--" And something else that could only be expressed through frustrated gestures. "You'd think they'd want as much help as they can get but noooooo; Captain America didn't anoint us with his tears so we don't count." He couldn't help the sneer that followed that statement, it was just that frustrating to him. "I mean half of them were so busy having a giant slap-fight over who had the right to be more morally self-righteous that they let the world get invaded and nearly conquered by aliens and they want us to kiss their rings? Like 'no, fuck you' and you honestly think people like that don't need adult supervision?"

He let out another frustrated breath, starting to run out of steam at this point.

"It kind of makes me want to become Kang, just so I can kick them all in the balls and take an unholy amount of pleasure in it."

He took another breath after that, and it seemed like he was done.

[beetlebutt]

For a moment Jaime just looked at him and it wasn't clear how he'd react. Was he going to be a smartass? Judgmental? After all, Nate had just admitted he almost wanted to become Kang to kick the heroes in the teeth. But no, his reaction was as far away from any of those as possible. Instead of judgment or trying to pick a fight with him over it, Jaime reached out his arms and hugged Nate firmly, flashlight still clutched in one hand. A lot of frustration had clearly built up in there and even some hurt at feeling like his former friends thought he was already psycho. "First of all, you're not a psycho," Jaime said in his ear and he didn't let go right away. "And you're right about one part. Okay, so even if they're former villains or whatever, the few times both teams even work together, the Defenders don't have to like them but as long as you're team ain't killing people or doing crazy stuff they should just tolerate them and cooperate 'til it's over." He pulled back to look Nate in the eyes, the hand with the flashlight resting on one shoulder, his other holding Nate's shoulder firmly. "But put this in perspective - a few of us are pretty sure we know who some of the Avengers are and if we're right? These people aren't just people who've killed people or done some villainy, some of them are people that've targeted heroes and people they love personally. Imagine if Osborn recruited Black Beetle as his own Blue Beetle and he stayed in line and all that. Even if he did, am I supposed to be all 'Hey, good job heroing so far, I totally forgive you for trying to brain damage my baby sister?'" He shook his head. "You're right about so many things with this. The Defenders have no right to act that much morally superior when so many of them have messed up. And with you, even the Jonas thing wasn't your fault - you just picked up the armor after he was already gone. You keep getting treated like you're already evil when you've done so much and tried so hard to make sure you won't ever be." He went on, "But you also have to remember they're human. I mean, people always hope heroes will be more than human, more than petty and all that, willing to shelve personal feelings for the greater good. But it's not easy getting hurt or threatened by someone or losing loved ones to them and forgiving them or trusting them even if they've done a lot of good. And a lot of your teammates aren't that secretive about who they are because they kind of have a thing about taunting the Defenders a little because they can be petty about it, even if they don't openly admit it. Or there's things like those of us with scanners can pick up on a lot about them. Now, should the Defenders shut up sometimes and cooperate as long as your team's not doing anything wrong? Yes." He'd done it. If they started to get too violent or whatever he'd called them on it or stopped them from doing it, but he'd done it. And of all people, he had a bit of a right to have expectations of others that they should be more controlled and such when he walked the walk and hadn't made many huge mistakes. "But some of them have also earned the right to never truly trust them or forgive them, either, even if they should work past it sometimes if innocent people need it." And the most important part... "And nobody should treat you like you're evil for things you haven't done and now don't ever have to do. It's fair for some of them to be mad at your team for certain things or distrust them because they're pretty sure they know some of them have caused some damage but this whole thing of treating you like you've already gone bad or have something you need to redeem yourself for is messed up." He told him what he'd told some of the Young Avengers. "If anything, it's good you're fighting side by side with them because if any of them start to relapse into kicking any puppies or eating any babies, you'll be there to stop them. Like, if Osborn did start to relapse into any scheming or goblin-ey cackling - or if it turns out he's been scheming all along - I know I'd want someone as smart as you and who's as good a person as you there to deal with it."

[inb4conquering]

Nate honestly didn't know what kind of response to expect from Jaime. Anyone else, and he would have been bracing for a fight, to be yelled at about how he's wrong and Osborn is evil and everyone should be in jail and so on. Jaime never went that route, however, which is why Nate had opened himself up enough to even vent at him like that. But now that he had, he realized how vulnerable he had left himself.

So it came as more than a little surprise when Jaime hugged him.

He honestly didn't know how to react at first, and kind of stood there dumbly for a bit. It was weird, not so much that he was being hugged by a guy, but that he was being hugged at all. It took him a moment before he did return the hug, if a little awkwardly, before Jaime pulled away.

It was comforting... and rather disarming to be hugged like that. Enough so that he could really listen to what Jaime had to say on the matter.

"You have a point." He had several, actually. "None of us have track records that are spotless, or even close to it. But even if they don't want to respect us, respect the law." Which they were agents of. So even if he couldn't get politeness and butt-pats, he'd settle for obedience.

"And of Osborn does go off the rails, I'm the least of his worries. Have you ever met Vice President Waller? She is not a woman you want to cross."

[beetlebutt]

Jaime smirked as they started walking along again. "I have heard things about her, yes. Batman says she's an absolute terror but at least the kind of terror that'd go after Luthor or Osborn if they got up to supervillainy again. Especially if they were abusing the trust of the public to do it." The only problem was the way some of these people thought meant even types like Waller were occasionally okay with mistreating metas 'for the sake of the greater good,' but Batman said she'd learned a few things over the years. Apparently, they had a weird respect for each other. She wasn't the best person in that kind of position but definitely wasn't the worst. "Look, I know the Defenders are - it's...it's a work in progress. But they're pulling together better than they were before." He went on, "And the Avengers had a whole year and a half on the rest of us. You can't tell me you all gelled perfectly from the very start. Now that things are settling, some of us are trying to get some of the others to simmer down on personal feelings." Even if Luthor and Osborn couldn't be trusted, being reactive wasn't the way to go about things, anyway. "It won't keep being the way it is." He drew in a deep breath. "And I'm pretty close to moving up to the big boy superheroing. So, when I'm a full Defender, I am going to have...things to say. That means I'll be sitting in on the meetings, I'll have a right to speak at the table, and I get a vote on the things that have votes."

[inb4conquering]

While they could continue down the road of oversight and accountability, there was something that Jaime said that gave Nate a bit of a pause momentarily.

"Why don't you have a seat at the table already?" He asked, genuinely curious. It wasn't as if Jaime wasn't working his ass off, or only facing softball threats while the Defenders handled anything bigger than a breadbox. It didn't seem right to him that they were fine with letting Jaime fight their battles, but wasn't allowed an equal say in the situation.

Not that Nate was equal to Osborn, but he was equal to every last one of the Avengers.

"If anything, you're more powerful and more mature than several of the Defenders. What reason do they have keeping you out of the big decisions?"

[beetlebutt]

"I handle lots of big stuff but they've kept me out of the really heavy stuff so far. Like, you know how some of the supervillains are bad but some are 'let's torture and kill this Beetle guy and send the Defenders his head in a box as a message' bad? They're still keeping me away from some of those if they know they're going against them ahead of time. The ones that are Dr. Light bad." "Dr. Light" was pretty much used as shorthand among many of the younger heroes from Jaime's side of things. There were villains and then there were villains and dropping his name was a good way to register you were talking about the extra sadistic, extra evil ones. Jaime hadn't been a hero then but after Light'd taken on most of the Titans and their allies all at once, he'd been etched in the collective consciousness of most of the younger heroes on Jaime's side as a massive (creepy) threat, and the lingo filtered around. Some situations were dangerous but sometimes they knew they were going against the kinds of villains that killed heroes and left their mutilated bodies somewhere as a message. "If they let me sit in and treat me like an adult then they can't really tell me I can't go out and face down that stuff anymore." A pause. "And they know I wouldn't hesitate to do it." He raised his eyebrows. "They still freak out whenever I'm on something that was more dangerous than they thought. Like they sent me on a thing where we were fighting some supervillains and they didn't know Major Force was involved? And they pretty much flipped as soon as they knew he was and tried to work me off the field. I didn't let them but they wanted me to bail and leave the others that were with me to handle it." A pause. "I don't know if you've heard of him, but word is he killed one of the Green Lanterns' girlfriends and stuffed her body parts in his refrigerator for him to find." That kind of bad. "So I think it's one of those things where it's less they don't respect some of us younger people and more they don't want us having to deal with the traumatic stuff yet until they're 100% sure we won't get sent home in several small boxes. Like one time I overheard Booster arguing with Green Lantern about it, that I could handle it. And Green Lantern agreed but was all 'why expose him to that if we don't have to?'" He snorted. "Basically they're a little gun-shy because I'm still younger and they like me too much, I guess." He held a hand to his chest and sighed dramatically. "It's my curse. Being that likable."